Talk:Spellbreaker
How do we presume Loraan modified it? - Attjen --- Um... Based on the circumstantial evidence that he had it before Vlad found it, and Vlad suspects that it has been modified (first in Phoenix, then in Issola) that it is more than just normal Phoenix stone. It's definately a presumtion. We have no evidence one way or another. --Majikjon 21:52, 14 Oct 2005 (UTC) Well I meant, why do we presume Loraan? If we go on the assumptions of it always being a part of Great Weapon that was broken apart, why is Loraan in the picture at all? -Attjen --- Well, Godslayer is obviously not 100% the same as it used to be. (At the very least Teldra's soul is a new element)... How do we know that Spellbreaker was even involved in the original version of the weapon? As far as evidence goes for Loraan possibly being responsible for Spellbreaker's special abilities: # He's a powerful Wizard, obviously capable of making such a thing if anyone is. # Vlad found it in his possesion, and he even claims later (in Athyra) that it belongs to him. # He seems very familiar with its abilities to block spells. (He gets fear in his eyes when he sees it in Vlad's hands in Taltos.) All circumstantial evidence... But as good an explanation as any. --Majikjon 22:03, 14 Oct 2005 (UTC) That's good speculation. Mmmmm. Yummy. - Attjen --- Of course. I didn't figure it was important enough a point to make a full speculation page out of, however. --Majikjon 22:25, 14 Oct 2005 (UTC) --- I kinda prefer Attjen's idea that Spellbreaker was like this before Loraan got ahold of it. Why I think so: # It's got some ability to move itself and some tiny amount of sentience, both evident the first time Vlad sees it in Loraan's workshop. # If it was formerly part of a Great Weapon, those would be expected. # We know of Serioli investing weapons with sentience, but not Athyra wizards. # If Loraan had invested it deliberately with the ability to bond to its bearer and stay in place, why was it sitting in a case instead of on Loraan's arm? # If Spellbreaker wasn't one of the original Godslayer's components, what was? Occam's Razor says it's likelier that it was. # That Serioli guy recognized it as a party to the conversation and wondered its name. # Spellbreaker reared up and threatened Verra. On its own. (Forget which book) Sounds like a part of Godslayer to me. Ok I've convinced myself at least. :-) --Steve the Younger 08:49, 17 Oct 2005 (UTC) --- It seems to me that the "special abilities" of Spellbreaker seem to grow more pronounced the closer in time it gets to actually becoming a part of the reincarnated Godslayer. The Serioli's and Verra's reaction to it (not to mention it's reaction to Verra) are therefore not to do with what Spellbreaker WAS in the past, but rather what it was destined to become. Indeed, most of the strange behavior you've pointed to is from Issola--mere days or hours before Godslayer's return. This still does not remove Loraan as a potential contributor to Spellbreaker's abilities. (Any more than it removes the Seriloi smith who presumably made the morganti dagger the Jenoine gave to Vlad that became Spellbreaker...) Also, we have no evidence that Godslayer is "sentient" as such. (Not any more than a typical morganti weapon, for example...) It does show a tendency to bond with Vlad, but again, I see this as a signal of what Spellbreaker was GOING to be, more than a sign of what it USED to be. Bottom line, Spellbreaker had to emerge before Godslayer could be reborn. Loraan may have played a role in helping that event to come about by making a special chain which (he thought) he was creating just for himself. (Perhaps he was influenced by the fact that he had Aliera's soul in a staff at the time? After all, Godslayer and Pathfinder have a special bond (see Dragon) with each other... Aliera's soul could have guided Loraan into creating a critical component of Godslayer. Interesting notion, that. --Majikjon 13:24, 17 Oct 2005 (UTC) :Fascinating ideas, but I think stretched beyond the boundaries of the known paradigm. First, you explain Spellbreaker's behavior by adding another previously unknown one -- the ability to predict its own future. Given that Sethra the Younger was affronted (in "SL") at Sethra Lavode when she thought she might have even suggested such a thing was possible for a human, (and Sethra wasn't in fact suggesting it), I'd say that future prediction isn't available in artifacts on Dragaera. If it were, wouldn't the Orb have some? :I think it's far simpler to postulate that it's part of the original Godslayer, and perhaps the least replaceable part at that. Any old morganti dagger and any old soul might have sufficed, but "any old semisentient spell-breaking charmed Gold Phoenix Stone chain with psychic link and shape-changing abilitiies" might be harder to come by. And it's likely that all those abilities are needed. :As for there being no evidence that Spellbreaker is "sentient", there's plenty. In addition to my points above that the Serioli thinks so, plus it stands up on its own, threatens Verra, and crawls back up Vlad's arm, Vlad finds in Issola that he has the ability to enter it psychically like a mind. You can't do that with just normal jewellery. :The speculation on Aliera and Loraan is interesting, let me toss back another simpler speculation at you: Loraan knew that Spellbreaker was a valuable artifact, and part (maybe the hardest part to find) of the original Godslayer. He wanted a human soul and a morganti dagger so he could try reassembling it and have his own Great Weapon. Maybe that's why he had both Aliera's staff and Spellbreaker in special cases, and was unwilling to give up the staff at any price. Now THAT's yummy. :--Steve the Younger 18:45, 17 Oct 2005 (UTC) Actually, that last bit IS pretty yummy. And it would lead me to think that we haven't, in fact, seen the last of Loraan... He'll be back for Godslayer. No proof, there, just a feeling... ;-) Just for the record, tho, I never said it has the ability to predict its own future... It was just approaching closer and closer to the time when it would re-manifest as Godslayer, so it's nature was becoming more and more evident. An Verra and the Serioli both seemed to know what the chain was going to become... This was more a case of "seeing the future" than what I'm suggesting. --Majikjon 19:40, 17 Oct 2005 (UTC) Hmm...good theories. I'm of the mind that Spellbreaker had its abilities outside of Loraan tampering with it. Also, I haven't read anyone mentioning this, but when Vlad and Morrolan are talking with the Serioli, he refers to Spellbreaker as the people of the small invisible lights? It's been a while since I've read the books, but that comment puzzled me. Perhaps Spellbreaker has some sentience due to multiple souls inhabiting it....far fetched as it is.